imported>Tess the Golden: /* Too many similarities? */

2016-04-15T23:49:33Z

Too many similarities?

New page

==Ripfang==
Q: In Mossflower there is a searat captain Ripfang. In Lord Brocktree there is another searat captain Ripfang. Are both these searat captains the same animal?
A: No just a coincidence

http://www.redwall.org/dave/answers4.html

--[[User:LordTBT|LordTBT]] 02:04, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

This is weird, as there is a definite implication that it is the same Ripfang - the Brocktree Ripfang says he dreams of a badger warrior who looks like Brocktree, but is not Brocktree. Surely this is a reference to Mossflower Ripfang and his eventual death at the hands of Brocktree's son, Boar?

::Hi, welcome. Sure it's an implication, but BJ himself says it's not the same character, so I go by what he says. --[[User:LordTBT|LordTBT]] 12:17, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be at least a reference on the page about the coincidences of the two (while explaining they are only coincidences) as well as odd factors that would usually imply that the two characters are the same? I mean, listen:

-Brocktree's Ripfang is explicitly stated to survive, and to sail off on a ship with a full crew. Other major sidekick vermin characters, i.e. Doomeye and Karangool, are known to die (though Karangool is implied.)

-Brocktree's Ripfang is young, and could very possibly live to become Boar's nemesis.

-Both have the same name and charactaristics.

-Both hold grudges against Salamandastron

-As said above, Ripfang has the prophetic dream of the badger that is not Brocktree, but the badger in question which is not addressed in the book any further. The dream clearly startles him, and in a book where the adversaries prophetically see the other (Trunn dreams of Brock, Brock dreams of Trunn), why would Ripfang's adversary be brought up and not be addressed again?

Sure, BJ says they are different, so they are probably different. But why can't the page address that, despite them definitively being different, there is a multitude of evidence pointing to the opposite conclusion?

[[User:69.251.74.250 is my name|69.251.74.250 is my name]]

Bah, I hope it's him. They both sound the same. [[User:Ecto|Ecto]] 15:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I honestly do think it's him, but the BJ quote against it is pretty solid. I'm kinda sad they aren't the same, it would be genius if they were.

[[User:69.251.74.250 is my name|69.251.74.250 is my name]]

:Think of it in terms of age. Do you realize how old Ripfang would have to be by the time ''Mossflower'' came around? He'd be incredibly ancient. It's impossible for someone to live that long.--[[User:LordTBT|LordTBT]] 18:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, he is described as old in the Mossflower, and we have no idea how long Brocktree has been traveling in Lord Brocktree. Boar could very well be pretty well grown by the time the events of Lord Brocktree take place!
Still, I'm not asking for there to be a section PROVING the Ripfangs are the same, just a section acknowledging that, despite evidence that proves they are different (BJ quote) there are many bizarre references that intertwine the two Ripfangs. I'd write it myself, but the page is locked.

[[User:69.251.74.250 is my name|69.251.74.250 is my name]]

I know, they aren't the same, I worded what I said wrong. I would like it had they been one and the same. Ah well. I do think an explaining section would be cool, but whatever.

Also, wasn't Cregga insanely old, but still fighting fit?[[User:Ecto|Ecto]] 21:12, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

:Cregga was a badger. --[[User:LordTBT|LordTBT]] 05:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

That's why I said that Boar may have been an adult by the time the events of Lord Brocktree happen. Boar doesn't run off to Salamandastron once he hits adulthood, he has to raise Bella and all that. As said, badgers live for a while, Brockers may have been middle aged by the time his book happens; Stonepaw is ancient, and he's Brock's dad, so Brock isn't all that young in his book.

But this is really besides the point. Leave out the age stuff, it doesn't matter, the fact is that there are tons of similarities and it would be a shame not to address them.

:And also, if you respond again Ecto, please tell LordTBT to read what I wrote. I'm pretty sure he only reads the last post, so your replies, while appreciated, may be keeping my goals of the log of coincidences from becoming a reality, as he only responds to your responses and not my issue. If this is not the case, and LordTBT does read everything (which I hope is true), then LordTBT, please at least respond to the idea of this coincidence section, even if you're against it.

[[User:69.251.74.250 is my name|69.251.74.250 is my name]]

:I read it, and unlocked the pages earlier. --[[User:LordTBT|LordTBT]] 03:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a ton

[[User:69.251.74.250 is my name|69.251.74.250 is my name]]

Since Jacques specifically stated that they are not the same rat, I came up with an alternative. To avoid confusion, I'll call the Ripfang from Lord Brocktree Ripfang 1 and the one from Mossflower Ripfang 2. My theory is that Ripfang 2 is Ripfang 1's son. Just bear with me here. Examining the evidence points just as much to father/son as to them being the same rat. There are several seasons between the two books where the Bloodwake and its captain are unaccounted for. Father/son combos aren't unheard of (eg. Ferahgo and Klitch, Swart and Veil). Both, as previously stated, show the same traits. Martin looked and acted like Luke when he was a young mouse. The clinching evidence, though, is this. Ripfang 1 held a grudge against Salamandastron and the badger lords for the above stated reasons, yadda yadda yadda. Naturally, grudges of this kind are passed ''from father to son!'' Ripfang 2 would have inherited the grudge Ripfang 1 had toward the mountain, along with several other traits and appearences. That's my theory, anyway.

[[User:207.67.93.148|207.67.93.148]] 01:19, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Good theory- I Like it!--[[User:Shieldmaiden |Shieldmaiden ]] [[Image:Matthias2.JPG| 70px | ]] [[User talk:Shieldmaiden |Talk!]] 04:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Thats the best explination ive heard so far|[[User:Lordsunflash|User:Lordsunflash]] 02:46, July 23, 2010 (UTC)|

== Too many similarities? ==

Did Jacques ever elaborate on why the two Ripfangs are so similar? Maybe he was planning on a direct sequel to ''Brocktree''. {{unsigned|MongoosePirate |03:00, September 4, 2013}}

:Nope, just that they're different characters. -- [[User:LordTBT|LordTBT]] [[Image:Tbtico.jpg]] [[Message_Wall:LordTBT|Talk!]] 03:38, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Has it ocurred to anybody that BJ might have just been (being?) sarcastic?
Just a thought I had ...
[[User:Tess_the_Golden|Tess]][[User talk:Tess_the_Golden|Hare of sun and rain]] 23:49, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Ripfang - Revision history

imported>Tess the Golden: /* Too many similarities? */