Talk:Wurpldown Dumm
Add topicSomething just occured to me whilst reading through Outcast of Redwall. Why is there no minor character article for Wurpldown Dumm? He was named, had a gender, and a species, and was put forward by Uncle Blunn to have been an acquaintance of his. ("I knew a mole named Wurpldown Dumm. He was a rascal, a villain by gum.") Certainly, the song about him ended in a manner somewhat exaggerative of Wurpldown's feats, but that's a typical case with ballads about a particular individual. There is an article about Filthy because he was put forward to be an actual character even if he made no actual appearance in Triss, so what about Wurpldown the mole? File:Biggrensignature.gif(Tuûr!)
- We don't know if 'I knew' is really true, or just fabulized for the song. -- LordTBT File:Tbtico.jpg Talk! 23:34, February 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Why do we automatically presume that Blunn was telling anything less than the truth here? Even if the rest of the song was exaggerated, this was a statement. Blunn said that he knew a male mole named Wurpldown Dumm with a mighty appetite. Wurpldown surely didn't eat the gates of Dark Forest, but it was a colorful exaggeration of his voracious penchant for vittles, just as Scummy Stoat in the Freebooter Song didn't really make all the fish jump out of the sea and run away with his powerful unwashed odor.
- We had no reason whatever to believe that the pirates aboard Seascab were fabricating the existence of a fox named Filthy, even if the rest of the song got a bit fanciful and exaggerative as to the crew's actual exploits (all of the fish jumping out of the ocean and onto dry land and running away when they lack the necessary legs or ability to do so). Can't the same be said for Wurpldown Dumm and his insatiable hunger?
- And the same could be said for Filthy, then. Just as we don't know for certain that "I knew a mole named Wurpldown Dumm" is a true statement, then, we don't know if "there's Filthy fox" is really a true statement, or just a fabrication to fit the song, even if Ripper, Scummy, Fatty and Stinky were mentioned alongside him. What evidence is there that Wurpldown didn't exist? Was Blunn known for fabricating individuals just to suit his musical flair? If a character makes a statement about a character's existence that we have no reason to believe was an untruth (such as the Lobster who married a Cod, which by common sense is obviously made-up), shouldn't we believe it? File:Biggrensignature.gif(Tuûr!)
- Why do we automatically presume that Blunn was telling anything less than the truth here? Even if the rest of the song was exaggerated, this was a statement. Blunn said that he knew a male mole named Wurpldown Dumm with a mighty appetite. Wurpldown surely didn't eat the gates of Dark Forest, but it was a colorful exaggeration of his voracious penchant for vittles, just as Scummy Stoat in the Freebooter Song didn't really make all the fish jump out of the sea and run away with his powerful unwashed odor.
- But it can't. Ripper is mentioned in the song. Why would crew members who don't really exist be mentioned with ones who do? There's no logic to that. However, I would consider removing the Filthy article, if it is really that big a deal. -- LordTBT File:Tbtico.jpg Talk! 23:29, February 25, 2015 (UTC)
- Oh no, that's not it at all. I agree completely with your logic on the Filthy article; I believe he certainly existed, along with Fatty, Scummy, Ripper and Stinky. I'm not trying to say that Filthy didn't exist, I'm using his page's existence as a logical basis for Wurpldown to get one as well. My thoughts were that even if a song gets a bit fanciful, if a character is named to exist in the song and isn't unreasonable (like the lobster who married a cod, which was by common sense a jesting sea shanty at most), why should we believe anything other than that the character existed? I wouldn't hold this to a character who had no name or gender or species perhaps, but Wurpldown had all three: he was male, a mole, and named. His personality was even described as the rascally, mischievous and gluttonous roguey type. Nuncle Blunn spoke of him like he had been an acquaintance that he knew. Either way, it's not a huge deal to me; but just who counts when it comes to named characters mentioned in songs but not seen in the book? File:Biggrensignature.gif(Tuûr!)
- It's like the song 'Old MacDonald'. Was there maybe a real Old MacDonald? Was he maybe really a farmer? Possibly. But we don't know for sure. -- LordTBT File:Tbtico.jpg Talk! 00:11, February 27, 2015 (UTC)
- I find it worth mentioning that in Old MacDonald, the singer doesn't make him out as an acquaintance as in "I knew an old farmer named Old MacDonald, and this farmer I knew had a farm", as the singer does do with Wurpldown, stating that he knew him by name at least. I don't wish to drag it on though. If you don't think it's best for Wurpldown to have a page, so be it. I'm not going to make a big deal about it. File:Biggrensignature.gif(Tuûr!)