Talk:Blue Hordes

I wouldn't really consider the Grand Fragorl a soldier... Blaiken 01:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Nor would I.... a Captian might be more appropriate though.--Lord Mactalon 00:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

How??

How did Lord Brocktree's army win if they were so outnumbered oh okay —This unsigned comment was added by Richard Starkey (talk • contribs) 20:05, February 27, 2011. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

The Blue Hordes were deprived of food by the Bark Crew, who also took a good number of Trunn's soldiers. --Lord Bluestripe File:Orlando.jpg ^{Eulaliiiiiiaaa!} 20:26, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

Horde count

Where is the number 7500 figured out? I cannot find any such number in Lord Brocktree. And it seems too little if you ask me anyway, given the operating mindset of the opposers. Taggerung Warrior of Redwall 05:16, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

7500, that's odd, I'd guess probably 100,000 at least Wedgeback —This unsigned comment was added by Wedgeback (talk • contribs) 22:02, October 19, 2011. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

I'd guess more than 7500, but less than 100,000. Probably 30,000 would be my guess.--Amesco 04:07, November 24, 2011 (UTC)Log a Log

Horde Count Revisited

One single column is 50*50 = 2,500. The two forces arriving from north and south on p. 43 marched in "columns fifty deep and fifty long". This could mean two such columns or it could mean ten; we don't know how many columns there were. What "columns" couldn't mean is one column. According to Fleetscut, the Horde was divided into thirds, with the force from the north being but one third, and the forces from the south and from the western sea being the other thirds (p. 52).

The ships carrying one-third of the Blue Hordes were lined side-by-side for one league (3 nautical miles, 18,228.3 feet) along the coastline. Even assuming a gargantuan average beam of 30 feet (the largest galleons were 30 feet wide) per ship to reduce the number of ships lined up side-by-side as much as possible, that's 607 ships. Even assuming the most minimal skeleton crews for those gargantuan ships (the small, single-masted Bludgullet had a named crew of 20), 607 * 20 = 12,140 crew. Is this how many came by sea? Not necessarily. It is, however, the minimum number of beasts who came by sea. This establishes a boundary of what is possible and what is not within the confines of the text. Of course, we could be ridiculous and pretend that a single ship is piloted by 5 creatures - B. J. certainly didn't say that wasn't the case. That is still 3,035 crew.
A few principles:
Each third of the whole Horde must be equal in size to the other thirds. By definiton of "third".
The minimum possible size for an individual third of the Blue Hordes is 2,500 according to the description of the land forces on p. 43, for a total size of 7,500.
(If we accept "commanders" for each column as "captains", there were 9 named captains at a given time. 9 * 2,500 = 22,500. That's certainly not the crux of the argument, however - rather, it's relegated to a supporting figure. Nothing in the text concretely states that a "commander" is a captain.)

The minimum possible size for an individual third is 12,140 according to the description of the sea force on p. 43. Since each third must be equal by definition of "third", we must return to the land thirds and recall the fact that each column must be 2,500 beasts. That makes a rough number like 12,140 invalid, since the land thirds must equal the sea third and land thirds must be multiples of 2,500. Since it can't be smaller than 12,140, it must be 12,500 as that is the next multiple of 2,500.
With the figure based in the minimum crew size seen in a Redwall book, we have 12,140 > next multiple of 2,500 >12,500. 12,500 * 3 = 37,500.
Does this mean B. J. said there were 37,500 beasts in the Blue Hordes, or 7,500? Not at all. But it does define the minimum size of the Horde based on the facts we are given - sans any direct statement on the crew sizes of the ships or their widths, we can use logical inference as much as we like, but can't lock down the sea force size in quite as easy a manner as we do the land forces.
In any case, did B. J. mean for the Blue Hordes to be so egregiously huge? Who knows? Did he write them as egregiously huge? Yes. 𝕲𝖗𝖊𝖓𝖓𝖊𝖗 🏴‍☠️ (Parlay!) 04:09, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

You have certainly put a lot of thought into this! -- LordTBT File:Tbtico.jpg ^Talk! 17:47, 14 March 2025 (UTC)